From brokenness to hope in the world with guest Cody Anderson

This week on Unpacked we are chatting with guest Musician and Pastor Cody Anderson, Faith Covenant Church, Winnipeg Manitoba. Cody chats with us about the process of songwriting and in particular a song he wrote after travelling to Haiti. We chat with him about his life and story and in particular the grief and emotional experience this year his family has gone through with his daughter going through chemotherapy. Cody shares what he is learning about finding hope and beauty in the brokenness of the world. We talk about our shared experiences of going to Haiti and how although the needs may be less obvious in our communities in Canada they are still very present. Cody breaks down with us how a song comes together, the inspiration and how the songs on this album are meant to bring hope. 

Unpacked is a podcast exploring life as messy people. It’s conversations with counsellors, leaders, storytellers discussing the experiences of being human. We talk about the strength that comes from big messy failures and vulnerable moments so we can learn to live more authentically. Subscribe and leave us a review!

LINKS   
-Sacred Longings Album
-Bible Convo Podcast
-Here 4 Haiti Community 

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Facebook: @theunpackedpod
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Transcript

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Evan Dewald 0:00

Hi. I'm Evan DeWald. And I am joined by Tara Linsley, and we're the voices behind the unpacked podcast. On the unpack podcasts, one of the things we love to do is talk about life and storytelling and sometimes life gets messy and vulnerable and all those things. So we have conversations, conversations with counselors with psychologists with industry leaders, storytellers, and just regular humans that are making a difference in the world.

Tara Linsley 0:25

Yeah, and we're just helping to grow and reflect and heal together. So you can find our podcast anywhere you subscribe to your podcast. New episodes come out every Thursday. Enjoy.

Evan Dewald 0:35

Make sure to like and subscribe. See other Gera

Tara Linsley 0:42

Hey,

Evan Dewald 0:44

are you doing?

Tara Linsley 0:45

I'm okay. We're not together. I know sucks. Yeah, it's not fun.

Evan Dewald 0:51

Yeah, I haven't been feeling great. Some kind of a global pandemic or something strikes twice. What are you gonna do?

Tara Linsley 0:58

strikes again?

Evan Dewald 1:02

And so I'm stuck at home. But I'm feeling fine. Other than a little bit of a sore throat.

Tara Linsley 1:07

Yeah. And a lower voice.

Evan Dewald 1:09

Yes. sexy voice. People are gonna be able to tell what podcast we recorded this week, because my voice is definitely lower.

Tara Linsley 1:19

Yeah, that was like, Well, I got sick in September. And I can tell all the episodes where I have like, I've recovered, but I'm a little nasally I'm like, you can hear it

Evan Dewald 1:32

none of this is clouded. How much fun the weekend was because I had a great weekend.

Tara Linsley 1:36

Right? Yeah, you didn't get COVID until Monday. Yeah,

Evan Dewald 1:40

and it appears that I didn't give anybody COVID which is even better. But I did get to do leaves backyard like our new place has as you know has some very large trees that shed a great deal in the fall. And because we always hang out in the backyard, we got to clean up those leaves for our winter fun party and turn that place into a winter wonderland back there. And it was super fun as you know you got to have feel and Ryan came over to help to leaves Yeah, and how fun you know All kids should get to play in the leaves like that.

Tara Linsley 2:18

It was like memory making moments that's what I thought that photos and videos of you guys jumping in it looks so fun.

Evan Dewald 2:26

It was exactly how I dreamed it was gonna be Yeah, okay. I was like I think deal will love this like Otto and I went out and Ryan came and so it was basically just the four of us out there just playing around and raking leaves and using the big blower did Ryan tell you he ran the big backpack blower?

Tara Linsley 2:46

Yes. While co pointed that out to me and then also they kept talking about riding the tractor

Evan Dewald 2:51

Yes. Okay. We put this big blower on his back which he can barely hold up Ryan's like holding this thing up so you can have it on his back and he pulls the trigger was things got so much pressure just spun spins him and

the video is pretty funny. Yeah. Yeah. Then we played in the leaves like crazy and then he got to drive the lawn more him and Ryan went out or and and I did one round with him and then I was like no, I think Brian should do this and I'll rake leaves instead. So right and him drove around and collected all these is pretty fun.

Tara Linsley 3:28

They loved it. You guys have the best yard and so many fun ideas. I was thinking that like everybody needs friends who don't have little kids anymore who want to do really fun just create like experiences with us to do with our kid and it's so fun.

Evan Dewald 3:47

It's fun to watch life through the eyes of little kid.

Tara Linsley 3:50

It really don't.

Evan Dewald 3:51

We don't have any more. We have the irritated look, though that's where our kids give us the irritated

Tara Linsley 3:57

although when Theo's around all of your kids are the sweetest and like want to play with him and make it joyful to like even Otto I saw the photos like Kid is smiling and the leaves can I

Evan Dewald 4:09

definitely had fun came out and we did a bunch of stuff. We I still haven't made a reel. So I need to make it I'll make a really big impact collaborator so people can see how much okay, this week. Longtime friend? Yeah, longtime friend. Second time caller. Cody Anderson joins us.

Tara Linsley 4:30

That's right.

Evan Dewald 4:32

He was on. Cody was on when we when we did a podcast with the Winnipeg boys.

Tara Linsley 4:38

Yeah, that's what you call them.

Evan Dewald 4:41

Because they're all younger than me. There's still they're like old pastures already, but they're still younger than me. So I still call them boys.

Tara Linsley 4:49

Yeah. And they have their own podcast too on the Bible cuz they're all your pastor. Yeah.

Evan Dewald 4:54

Bible conversations is what it's called. It's one of those things I've been listening to and kind of like in lieu of Have not hearing a lot of sermons. Yeah,

Tara Linsley 5:02

they do a really good job.

Evan Dewald 5:03

It's so good. So good, good dose of humor, but then also these like, just incredibly insightful observations. So Cody's on that one too. It's really good. It's really, really good. But in this episode, we talked about a bunch of things, some things that he's going through, we ended up talking about grief, which I think is something that a lot of us are going through. He shared a little bit of Whoa, some of his music. Yeah, he's

Tara Linsley 5:29

a musician. So we want us to talk to him a little bit about what that is like, for him and writing songs. And

Evan Dewald 5:36

yeah, how that plays out. He's an Enneagram. Four. But according to him, he doesn't know anything about the Enneagram. Oh, well see somebody who doesn't know anything about the Enneagram. Like Dane did a pretty good job of faking it. She asked me Yeah,

Tara Linsley 5:51

well, and what's been interesting is in our Enneagram series, it's been hard to find men who are willing to talk about their numbers.

Evan Dewald 5:57

Yeah. But then you get them on and then you start talking about it. No, that's I was gonna say is

Tara Linsley 6:01

like, it was great. So you know, it wasn't an Enneagram episode, but he definitely has some wisdom for us around that.

Evan Dewald 6:07

Yeah, exactly. And one of the songs that he that he wrote a long, long time ago is still love was written, you know, after coming back from Haiti, so we end up talking a bunch about Haiti today, as well.

Tara Linsley 6:20

Yeah. Which maybe we should just like, explain a little bit of what's going on right now in Haiti.

Evan Dewald 6:25

Oh, it's just not good and needy. Yeah, it's a place

Tara Linsley 6:28

we both love. We work on some way work for some people who do some projects there with the denomination.

Evan Dewald 6:34

Yeah, there's so much unrest around the particular leader that's leading right now. There's a fuel shortage. The subsidy for fuel that used to be present through the Venezuelan Government has been removed. And so the gas prices have just gone crazy up. And that has rose up some of the the strength of some of the gains that are present in Haiti. And yeah, so it is, it is become that's pretty much the skinny on what I know of it. There's more to it, obviously, a much more in depth thing, but encourage people to just check that out in World News. And

Tara Linsley 7:19

yeah, that's really heartbreaking like lockdown situation, kids, not in school, difficulty to get food, medical care,

Evan Dewald 7:27

all of that, when you add this on top of what is already in a lot of ways of country living right on the edge of real, like devastating health challenges like cholera, and like all of those things. It's scary. They need they definitely need your thoughts and prayers these days. So the song that he writes is maybe even more soothing, and more fitting for the period of time that Haiti is going through now. He wrote, he wrote that song. I believe it was after the

Tara Linsley 7:58

earthquake. Yeah.

Evan Dewald 8:01

So lots to think about in this podcast. It's Cody. So we laugh too, we have a good time, kind of working through some of these these topics. And I really do hope that it is helpful and insightful for people who listened and it provokes thought and growth. In you know, hey, I'm still taking clients too. I could say that. Yeah, check us out, check out our website, actually, just the unpack pod.ca and all of our previous episodes are there, we got a whole collection of Enneagram ones there, that you can also go over to the coaching side and see how you can get in touch with me if you want to do some individual or corporate coaching. I'd love for that to happen. Anyways, enjoy this episodes. And thanks for liking and subscribing and the shares the shares are really awesome. Anyway, I hope that you're having a great week, wherever it is that you're listening to this and if you're running on the treadmill, run faster,

Tara Linsley 8:53

faster, faster, faster. Or drive safely. Drive safe.

Evan Dewald 8:57

Enjoy

Well, hey, hey. What do you mean? Oh, was oh,

Unknown Speaker 9:23

I didn't hear a thing you just said.

Evan Dewald 9:25

Can you hear me now? Oh, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 9:27

Yeah,

Tara Linsley 9:28

okay. Oh, good. We were just admiring your cross.

Unknown Speaker 9:32

Oh, yeah. It is. Makes me look really good. A

Tara Linsley 9:37

very pastoral of you.

Unknown Speaker 9:41

That's just that's just the FCC back of the church there. That's all that

Evan Dewald 9:45

I figured it was. Dude, how you doing?

Unknown Speaker 9:49

Oh, man. It's like, you know, pastoral ministry like in September. It's like, you feel guilt Tea for all August in July that you're lazy whatever and plan something for every freaking day. Yeah till April

Evan Dewald 10:15

I don't know what you're talking about I September's are always really calm for me. What do we call them, we call them a longtime listener. First time friend, longtime listener other way round. Longtime friend first time,

Tara Linsley 10:30

this year like radios

Evan Dewald 10:42

I see this almost always, when I think about who we're gonna get to chat with, because I'm a seventh and I think everything should be fun. But I woke up this morning to get I get to talk to my old friend Cody, and it's gonna be a fun day to kind of hear, let's get it going on. So we've known each other for a little while.

Unknown Speaker 11:03

Yet we have actually I was thinking about this, Evan. You know, like, Tara, maybe you don't know this, but Evan would have been I mean, I tell the story all the time. But I have a very distinct memory of being at covenant heights bible camp, and I would have been, oh, I don't know, Evan, when you were on team, what year would that have been? Do we want to share? Yeah,

Evan Dewald 11:23

94.

Unknown Speaker 11:26

Yeah. So I was great for around. And, and I do remember, I remember you there. I remember Kristin was on team. And I just, I mean, this has been a thing for you forever. And I've always said, I mean, you've you just have never stopped smiling, in my opinion, as far as I'm sure that's not the truth. But it I remember it back then. And I remember, you know, that was sort of the starting place of our relationship. And, and obviously, over the years, you know, things have flourished. And we got to know each other as you know, need as colleagues right, at some point and be able to share about ministry together and life in a different way. So it hasn't been a long time. Yeah,

Evan Dewald 12:06

that's a long time. Yeah. Pretty much my entire adult life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. And yeah. And yeah, that is the kind of the cool part is that at some point, you became a pastor, and started coming to the pastor functions, instead of the, you know, the junior higher events that I was leading in New York coming to it's it's weird.

Unknown Speaker 12:29

It is weird. And you know what I remember some of those early events. I mean, I started FCC, or in 2006, which is already a long time ago now. And I remember coming in as a new pastor to let's say, Pastor spouse retreat and being like, what is going on yet some of these old guard guys, and I'm like, I am just a baby here. And then you are kind of my bridge between us. Like, I felt like I connect with Evan. But he had been around, he had some cred around. He was like, my liaison between Albert Josephson and myself, because Albert Joseph, a little boy that would needed to, you know, get things figured out. So

Evan Dewald 13:09

I was the bridge between the old guys and still have been. Yeah, yeah. Because it is interesting, because I am in that I am in the middle age demographic of even the well, I guess I'd say I am, I was in the middle of the age demographic for the pastor's. Yeah. And we've got to do some fun things together, not just when you were a kid, or even just going out to pastors and spouses and stuff, but we've got to travel together, we got to go to Haiti, Haiti together, which I'm hoping we can talk a little bit about today. And just some of those things, but tell it tell us a little bit about where you're at and what you're up to and what your role is, and you're a dad, you're like, all those things, give it give us the spiel.

Unknown Speaker 13:50

Yeah, so I am a father of four kids 1311, nine and six years old. So we're kind of in the not the super needy five and under stage but transitioning that I've had, you know, a teenager who's dealing with different things and yet our youngest are still in elementary school and so we're, they're all in school now full time, and that's been really good. They're, they're all completely different children and I feel completely inadequate as a parent most of the time trying to figure out how to do this and we live in Winnipeg and in the heart of the continent, which I know it gets a lot of razzing, you know, especially when people don't want to live there, and it's good question sometimes sometimes I do wonder the same thing, but like January, January,

Evan Dewald 14:44

basically

Unknown Speaker 14:47

was like, January is a it's a struggle, but you know, there are some really neat things anywhere you live, it doesn't matter even Saskatchewan. I think you could make a good life. But, but you know what I've started to really you know, and for many years, I've seen the real goodness of this physical place where I live, and it's a unique place. You've never been to this area of the continent, it is a bit of the bridge, I'll use that word again, between Western Canada and eastern Canada. You know, where I live, there's some people that think and Eastern Canadians think differently than Western Canadians. Yeah. And where we live is sort of like this gathering place of both. And so you have some different mentalities old East thinking, and then sort of New West thinking. And so that's an interesting dynamic we have here, I have worked as a pastor at Faith Covenant Church. So they said since 2006, so that's been a huge part of my life, obviously, my adult life. And this, this happened to be the church that I grew up, attending. And the plan was not to do what I'm doing now. But really just sensed a call into that in my, in my early 20s, and specifically a call to, to remain here. And so that's been an interesting part of my life, too. I've always been one that's been a little more spontaneous, like to, you know, try different things. And so the notion of staying rooted as I have been for so long is, is still a little bit foreign to me. But I'm kind of living into it. And I happen to marry someone who's very rooted. And so maybe that has something to do with. She's definitely rubbed off on me. But we we've enjoyed planting and you know, having roots deep here in this area with our family.

Evan Dewald 16:40

Yeah. And other other unique factors. You are the pastor at the church, your dad planted. Yeah. And your partner in pastoral ministry is your brother.

Unknown Speaker 16:49

I know. Yeah.

Tara Linsley 16:53

Yeah, it does.

Unknown Speaker 16:55

I know when people hear that usually, you know, when they hear, Oh, the church that your dad planted. So there's some sort of like nepotism going on there? And no, it wasn't like that. There was a there was a pastor between him and when we entered in, you know, being in ministry with your brother, it is, you know, when people hear that they immediately have these, if they have siblings, they're like, there's no chance I could do that. That seems like a total train wreck. And I'll be honest, some days, it seems like a total train wreck. I mean, Eric and I are so vastly different. And it causes some pretty good bouts, you know, in ministry, as we think through things. But it also probably is our saving grace that we're so different. And I think you guys are big on the Enneagram. He's in number seven, and number four. And so we have some interesting dynamics and actually some things to teach each other if we're, if we're willing to listen to the other, which if you have siblings, you don't always want to listen to what your sibling as to speak truth in your life. But the more years have gone by found that's been some of the fruit that's come from this, you know, it's a labor and it's hard sometimes. But I think we're actually able to speak some truth into each other's lives, which is a real gift.

Evan Dewald 18:12

Like, you know, we're not going to talk too much Enneagram today, just so because we do have that a lot. But But seriously, some say that actually, a seven needs a four in their life and a four needs a seven in their life.

Unknown Speaker 18:26

Yeah, I believe the latter statement for sure. For sure.

Evan Dewald 18:29

For sure. One that one has the tendency to look towards the very optimistic side of things, to their detriment at times and the other sometimes has the tendency to look at the really darkest, darkest things to their detriment.

Unknown Speaker 18:45

The seventh looking at the dark.

Tara Linsley 18:47

Exactly, no,

Evan Dewald 18:48

no, I'm a seven. That's why you see, we saw me smiling all the time. This is complete. Fake but but right. It's like I feel like my foundations crushed the faith, you weren't happy all the time. Life wasn't lighted easy all. I do think you're right. Like I it's a good observation, though. It's great to be like, who are the people in my life that might? In your case, if this if it's your brother, like that's a challenging thing, because it's family, but outside of family, like there are some times people where it's like, no, I actually need these humans that see things differently. Even Tara was talking about before, just like, Well, I never encountered anyone who isn't like me, if I don't if I'm not a part of a community. I just get to choose the people who are just like me all the time.

Unknown Speaker 19:41

Absolutely. And I think I mean, one quick example of that. I mean, just the way that Eric spoken in my life and this last season, you know, we number four is yeah, we do go to sometimes dark spaces and we think about things pretty heavily. And we've had some heavy things going on in our family with our Are our nine year old daughter actually, it was a year ago. Last weekend, we noticed something wrong in her ear and long story short, they found out she had this thing called Langerhans. Cell histiocytosis. Which, if you Google it, it's it's sort of split between it's a cancer. It's not a cancer, but it functions like one. So you know, brass tacks is she's been for a year going through chemotherapy at Cancer Care Manitoba. And I've actually really needed Eric's, and it's not just, you know, fake positivity, but I've needed his perspective, to get out and outside of myself, I mean, that's a pretty heavy situation that we're dealing with. And it is we have to go through the grief and go through the process. But I have really, it's been like balm for me to be able to have people in my life that gives me a perspective that gets out of that because it's it is something we're dealing with, but the world is bigger than this. And we need to be reminded of that. You know that there are some good things happening in life. There's some victories, there are some things that are going well. And it's easy for me as a number four to just like, never look at that stuff. So actually, in this last season, I've been more thankful than ever for people like Eric number sevens in my life, to remind me of those things kind of pulled me out and draw me out

Evan Dewald 21:23

of that, that the sun's still gonna come up in the morning.

Unknown Speaker 21:27

Absolutely. Wow, you take for granted but there's people that sometimes that's hard to just like, get yourself out as it seems dark all the time. And so this has been a season I've been especially grateful for him. Don't tell him.

Evan Dewald 21:43

No, no, no, I will tell

Tara Linsley 21:44

he probably doesn't listen to me Listen. Well, not your episode anyways. Yeah.

Evan Dewald 21:53

Yeah, no, we can do it. All the good things you say about this? No, no. No, I don't want him to get a fat head over it. But it is true that we do need we do need these individuals and people in our lives that give us unique perspectives even on how, how we can go through pain or grief or all those kinds of things. So this is your, this is your daughter? How old is she? Which one?

Unknown Speaker 22:18

So her name is Lucy. And she is our second youngest. And she's in just started grade for this year, and she is 10 years old. And so yeah, it's she's a sweet little girl. It's been interesting to walk through this with her. Yeah. How

Evan Dewald 22:37

do you like not to pry you and you can only tell us what you want to tell us. But how have you seen her deal with? Like, all of the things like are you? Does she know all of what's happening? Are you keeping? Like, how do you do that?

Unknown Speaker 22:52

Yeah, that's been one of the trickiest parts for us is, you know, a it's hard to process grief when you're in the middle of for anybody, adults even. But for someone who's 910 years old, who whose brains still forming very much and as is hard to ask, or sometimes they Lucy, you know, the last week and I said this was a year ago, we went into the emergency room? Do you remember that? What that was like getting the CT scans. And, you know, her response was it just changed the subject, actually. And it's been interesting to see how personalities come out in the way that you deal with some of those hard things. And if I'm honest, I mean, that's one of the things that I'm probably most I mean, there's the physical reality of what she's got going on. But as a 910 year old going through that, who will eventually you know, be in their teenage years, and this will be she'll remember this, you better believe that. And so that's been my biggest concern is how do we help her process this mentally emotionally as a, someone who hasn't had those things formed yet in her and so that's something we're still trying to figure out. I don't have the answers. So

Evan Dewald 24:04

yeah, you know, it's like, I think every parent This is more serious than I've, like, this is a bigger example than I ever had to experience. But I think, you know, every parent doesn't want to be the cause of their adult children's therapy. And and I think we all have this like low level fear that we're like messing up our kids and that you know, what, is this the traumatic event that's going to alter the way they see the rest of the world the rest of their lives? You know, although they we put a lot of weight on that. And then how do we walk them through those things, you know, whether that's something outside of your control, which this is most definitely outside of your control, but what you do with it now is the bigger is the question and it there's no doubt in my mind that you guys are doing it well, but probably not every day.

Unknown Speaker 24:59

You Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, you mentioned something as I've been thinking about grief as a whole. I think so much of grief when I pinpoint it, it's, it's actually rooted in a loss of control. And, and so any situation where there's just like, there's not you can't control it. That's grief, actually you're experiencing there. You know, it's not just North Americans that like it people, people love to control things and control destinies of things. And so when you have situations so vastly out of your control, you immediately are pushed into this moment of grief. And like, I mean, that's why so many people over the pandemic, were so depressed actually, is because here's the thing that nobody can figure out as best as the best scientists in the world trying to figure things out. And nobody can really corner at a time. And it's like, people are in grief. And so. So we've definitely been experiencing that. And you're right, like, we don't do it well, every day, but we're seeking our best to like care for the emotional side of our daughter. And that's been tricky.

Tara Linsley 26:06

It is really tricky. Like, as someone who also has a medical issue I, it took me like, I've had my diagnosis for five years. And it's lifelong. It's not curable, or anything like that. But it's manageable, and it can live a relatively healthy life. But I came across something I don't know, a few months ago, I think, maybe six or seven months ago, that was like, trauma, like I wasn't really associating a lot of trauma around it. And this may, may or not be helpful. But when you experience something medical in your body, where your body and my body attacks itself, specifically, that it is actually no longer a safe place for you. And it can be quite jarring. And that is a form of medical trauma. And I was like, Oh, I think I have that. And it was five years later before I could really even start to look at the grief and acceptance of like, oh, this is lifelong. And it's not just like, oh, what's the next because when you're in something medical wise, sometimes it's just like, what's the next thing? Like, let's just get to the next point. And then there's some relief. And there's still grief along the way. But now I'm finding a different level of acceptance and, and trying to feel some of the waves of grief of things that have happened, and even be kind of resituated in my body to go with this. Is it still safe, it is actually still safe, but it's okay to be triggered by walking through the hospital, or the smells of the hospital or the traffic lights leading up to the hospital that I spent a year and a half going to for treatments. So all of those things were like, Oh, I actually can learn to manage and cope and deal with the waves. But it's sometimes I'm even in the moment of years ago when I was doing it.

Unknown Speaker 27:41

Yeah. And that's the other thing that we've been learning what you said this, you know, I just said that, you know, it was a year ago, Labor Day weekend, all this stuff was going down. I had a friend that that same weekend that was diagnosed with something pretty heavy. And I've been doing a lot of reading on her body keeping track of things post traumatic events. and I both Dana and I last week, and we're like, man, we have some weird things going on with our body. And I actually remembered that these things happened a year previous. And the things that were happening in our body physically, were the same things we were experiencing a year ago. And we didn't even it wasn't really in our consciousness, but the body was just like reliving this thing. It was a weird as experienced, I think there's something to that.

Evan Dewald 28:27

No. And I was, like we were talking about on my time painting boards gives me a chance to listen to podcasts. I legitimately listen to a podcast yesterday, yesterday. And in the podcast they were talking about the woman who was speaking was sharing that, you know, she had had a an event happened in her life that was very negative was very sudden. And it was exactly three years earlier. And she was like, my body remembered. I like I have all the same feelings I had three years ago, you know, and it was a breakup of her marriage. And when my husband came home and when when it all hit, like I remember all the feelings. And she's like, I don't think you'd have to just do it. Look, I don't think I can just fix this. So that next year, this time, it won't happen.

Tara Linsley 29:20

And yeah, that's why I'll tell you your body remembers those things, but it's so it can activate so many things. So if you're not like you're noticing it and then you're like what is going on? So now some of the work that I've been doing is like Okay, so I'm gonna there's certain things that I know now are gonna set me off. So how can I breathe through that? How can I manage it, but I think you're right. It's like, it's gonna hit every time and maybe less as the time goes by. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 29:48

I'm glad to hear that because I'm not a crazy person than you guys are. I've been thinking that this is a thing so you guys have confirmed it. Okay,

Evan Dewald 29:54

yeah, I do not think you're crazy. I also See, I think you're like the path towards healing is being able to call something what it actually is, especially when it's something inside of us our emotional system or how we're operating or those kinds of things to being able to name what's actually happening. Is, is seriously the path to Lake while healing from it, but also knowing kind of how to how to manage it. So being able to call this grief instead of, you know, some other emotionally being able to name the actual motion. It's funny. I'm sure you notice, but like, I started to smile, as soon as you said, grief, I was like, oh, man, are we doing grief again, like, to breed keeps coming up? Every conversation I've had, seems to have grief connected to it. You know, I was telling somebody the other day, that grief is weird. Because I, as a seven, I would prefer to keep my emotions completely out of everything. That's hard work for me to include emotions. And because it's hard work, I don't feel like I'm very good at it. So when I started even realizing that the seven is, is avoiding any difficult, painful emotional experience, then I was like, Well, no, I want to be, I want to be authentic. I want to be fully present with people. And I want to be true to what's actually going on. You're not just an avoidance machine, you know, that I'm always avoiding something. And so I was like, No, I need to figure out my feelings. So I was like, Okay, what are they say, Google that we just Google emotions? How many there are